Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:00:00]:

Hello, good people, and welcome back to the To Be Encouraged podcast with Bishop Julius C. Trimble. My name is Reverend Dr. Brad Miller, the co-host of the podcast, and this is the podcast where we look to offer an encouraging word to an often discouraged world. You can find all the catalog of many, many episodes, over 100 episodes of To Be Encouraged, at tobeencouraged.com. Well, Bishop Trimble, welcome to our conversation today. Are you an encouraged man today, my friend?

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:00:35]:

Yeah, it's a beautiful day. I happen to be in Indiana now. It's 90-something degrees, but it's sunshine. And as my mother used to say, you know, you don't have to shovel sunshine.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:00:46]:

There you go.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:00:47]:

You just have to find a cool place to be. And I think this is a wonderful time as we are moving into the end of the summer months to think about, there seems to be so much of a surplus of discouragement and fear and a deficit of hope and joy. And I wanted to talk about what constitutes, Brad, a good life.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:01:17]:

Ah, yes.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:01:18]:

A good life. Yeah. Just with the news of Dolly Parton, the great songwriter, singer, movie star, entrepreneur, businesswoman. Many described her life as a good life and an example of how to live a good life.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:01:38]:

Yes. Well, let's just go for that for a minute. I will mention that I happen to have been in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, her hometown area, a couple days before she passed away. She was actually— I was there, I think, on August 23rd, and she died on August 25th. And anyhow, she was supposed to be in Pigeon Forge that day at Dollywood to do some sort of a presentation at Dollywood for some new attraction they had there. But yeah, they were talking about it in the community there and missing her. I also noticed, Bishop Trimble, that the hotel we stayed at was right next to the Dolly Parton Medical Center, and right around the corner was the Dolly Parton Community Center. And we heard some talk about the literacy program and books that she provides for children in that area.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:02:25]:

But lots of good things there. So give me some of your— unpack a little bit your reaction to the passing of Dolly Parton and how it seemed like she was a person who lived a good life of her own, but she also shared a good life with others and helped to help others to have a good life.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:02:41]:

Yeah, I think about the John Wesley adage, do all the good you can in all the places you can with all the people you can. in all the ways that you can.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:02:51]:

Yes.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:02:52]:

For as long as you can. And sometimes people get the scripture wrong, Brad, about, you know, people say, you know, money is the root of all evil. I think that's a misinterpretation. I think it's the love of money, or I would call the idolatry of wealth, that may be the root of all evil. But having money in and of itself does not mean that you can't have a good life and also be a blessing to others. And as you know, probably as well as anyone having been there, Years ago, we were there in Pigeon Forge, not long after they had the World's Fair in Knoxville.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:03:29]:

Oh, yeah.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:03:30]:

In Knoxville. But Dolly Parton, who was such a prolific entertainer, songwriter, singer, movie star, really did all the good that she could for as long as she could. And so I really think that we can learn something from the example of that. And you don't have to be a multi-billionaire to be a blessing to someone else. That's the reason we have this podcast. You don't have to be a multi-millionaire to do all the good that you can.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:04:04]:

I was struck by what somebody said in the aftermath of her passing, that she's one of the last people in our country and around the world who everybody liked. Whatever your political persuasion, whatever your situation in life, everybody seemed to like her. And I think that comes from play in the sense of we can be people who can be liked and likable, even if we're in disagreement with other people about what they're about. So give me some thoughts about that statement that some people said that she's one of the last people that everybody liked.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:04:40]:

Yeah, well, she was not only one of the people that most people liked, but everybody respected. And whether you agree with her politics or not, she tended to be what I call a person who was unapologetic about hospitality and celebrating diversity. When I think about people with great voices like Whitney Houston, her greatest— I think if not both, one of two or three of her greatest songs, which projected her towards stardom were written by Dolly Parton. So Dolly Parton had songs often that she could have sung and produced herself, but she decided to gift them to people and let others sing them. Of course, that's one of the reasons she was so wealthy is because she received residual benefit from her creativity. But here's the thing I think about why people liked her and loved her so much was how much she cared about, and we've talked about this before, about children.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:05:49]:

Yes. Indeed.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:05:50]:

She gave away hundreds of thousands of free books every year. And so whether you were a Black child in an urban city or you were a child in a rural Appalachian community or somewhere in Tennessee or somewhere on the East or West Coast, you could benefit From her contribution of literally millions of dollars to making sure that every year that children receive free books that they could own themselves.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:06:22]:

And that just enhances life altogether. I know that a pretty good friend of mine in the podcasting world lives in Nashville, Tennessee, and his office is just down the street from Dolly Parton's office. And he had the privilege of interviewing her about a year ago, a year and a half ago. And a major part of their conversation was about philanthropy, about what you're speaking about here, the books that she made available to children, other things like that. And she very much cared. She cared about 2 things, he said. One of them was writing. Her songwriting and her book writing was what she cared for as much as anything.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:06:56]:

And then also reading, inasmuch as helping children and others to read. And I just thought of all the things that she's done, that was pretty Pretty awesome.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:07:06]:

I think we can be— one of the things I've preached for years is that it's amazing how much of an impact you can make if you pick one or two things that you really feel are your calling to accomplish.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:07:19]:

Yes.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:07:20]:

And you just described the two things for her, one writing and the other one reading and helping other people have access to that. So I believe she's noted for what I call being on the right side of history about things.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:07:37]:

Yes.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:07:38]:

After George Floyd was killed in Minnesota, when Black Lives Matter started, she said, of course Black lives matter. This is Dolly Parton. She didn't have to say that. No one would've faulted her for just saying, well, of course all lives matter, and so forth. But she was unapologetic about affirming the fact, the reason that there was this clarion call to point out about the injustices in the Black community. What she said, this is just an obvious truth and no one should be afraid to state that.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:08:16]:

Yes.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:08:17]:

And I know she didn't get a lot of probably good social media compliments about that, but that's one of the reasons she's respected across the spectrum.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:08:27]:

Yeah.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:08:28]:

The political spectrum and the theological spectrum and the racial and cultural spectrum, because she was really not so much about left or right, but right or wrong.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:08:39]:

Yes, absolutely. So that is an awesome way of putting it. Well, let's take her life and what you teach so much about encouragement. And so our topic today is basically what makes a good life. So let's just go there for a minute, Julius. What do you think, you know, based on her life and what your life and what you've observed, what are maybe a few points, maybe 2 or 3 points about what you think makes a good life for people.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:09:05]:

Well, I think about Dolly Parton. I think about some of the words of Jesus too. You know, the disciples wanted to— this is me using my spiritual imagination, but they wanted to approach Jesus and discuss, like, ask who's the greatest. We all hang out with you, Jesus, but who's the greatest among you? Jesus' response basically is, the greatest among you is the one who will serve. Dolly Parton, I think, helped us to understand that it's not just what you get in life, what you accumulate in life, but what it is that you give that makes for a good life. And so I think the reason that the condolences and the well wishes and the grieving, people experiencing such a great loss is because here was a person whose generosity and her life was defined not just about— not by all that she had accomplished or accumulated, but all that she was giving and willing to share and to bless others and make the lives of others better.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:10:15]:

Yeah.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:10:15]:

And I think this is the God— Jesus says, John 10:10, I have come that you may have life and have it more fully. But he also goes on to say that the greatest amongst you is the one who will serve. So a good life is a life in which we are willing to serve and help others.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:10:34]:

So servanthood, that's an awesome way, an awesome point. If someone wants to be a good person, servanthood. Is there anything else that comes to mind biblically or otherwise that you think could be an example of how somebody can what defines a good life?

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:10:52]:

Well, I think it's— I think, is it Patrick Lencioni, the leadership writer, who says that the only true leadership is servant leadership? And I happen to agree with that. I embrace that theme as well. The other thing I think is how are we the progenitors of hope? And Dolly Parton, you know, whether it was to her hospital or medical clinic, you know, she was also a person who believed that you need to invest in helping people experience and embrace and hold onto hope. You know, hope that things can be better, hope that, you know, they can experience healing and wholeness in life.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:11:40]:

Bishop, we were talking a little bit about this topic of what makes a good life. And of course, you and I are both from the Wesleyan background in terms of our teachings and our spiritual heritage. So let's talk a little bit about John and Charles Wesley and what they said about living a good life and how that could be applicable to our audience.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:12:06]:

Well, Charles Wesley kind of, I think, articulated through his hymn writing. But when Wesley, both the Wesleys embraced the notion that there's no holiness apart from social holiness, which really is a, I think, which is a tribute to the import of social community. We've been created by God as social creatures. And so the good life is whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, the good life is that we are created to be in relationship with others, to be in relationship with community. And as one of my colleagues that I work with, talks about, we really should be contributing to human flourishing. So it's not just— the good life is not just survival, not just having the basics of water and bread, but to have community and to be able to flourish, to have the freedom to make decisions, to be motivated to worship a God who is a God of creation and a God who is still creating.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:13:12]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:13:13]:

So one of the things I think in terms of Wesleyan theology was also the importance of faith and the importance of grace, that our faith really is not only a matter of trusting in God, but also should be lived out in relationship with doing as much good as we can for others. Yes. Do all the good you can. Hence going back to our conversation around Dolly Parton.

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:13:43]:

Yes. Well, I picked up a few themes here in what you've related to the life of Dolly Parton and your life in ministry and as a bishop in the United Methodist Church and your role now in terms of the General Church. But moreover, as a pastor and as a leader and as a father and a grandfather and a husband, I've picked up on servanthood. I've picked up on hope, about relationship, about contributing and helping people to flourish in faith and grace, living in grace. I tell you, if all of us worked on some of those points, we could all have a pretty good life ourselves and help others have a pretty good life. Don't you think?

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:14:25]:

I think so. I think, you know, and we need to encourage each other. You know, I think create space for rest and Sabbath, create space for laughter and levity. And, you know, not, not give up our songs. I think we all need to have—

 

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:14:46]:

Yes.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:14:47]:

Have a song. And when I think about Dolly Parton, I think about how important some people had songs that are their song. And we should have a song in our heart that maybe we can sing even when we are not able to articulate. I had a professor at Garrett who said, Martin Luther King Jr. was not a systematic theologian. And my response was, well, I think God didn't need a systematic theologian. God needed a prophetic, pragmatic theologian, one who was willing to not only dream big, but also to work towards justice. So a good life is a life of variety. We all don't have the same stories to tell.

 

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:15:42]:

Your story is different than my story, but we all might have some common experiences, and one of those is the opportunity to be a blessing to others.