Reflecting on America’s 250th: Progress, Division, and the Pursuit of a More Perfect Union (Part 1)

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:00:01]:

Hello, good people, and welcome to the To Be Encouraged podcast with Bishop Julius C. Tribble. I'm your co host, Reverend Dr. Brad Miller, and this is the podcast where we look to offer an encouraging word to an often discouraged world. And Bishop Trimble, we come to you talking now, the month of July of 2026 as we record this. This is the month of the 250th anniversary, a celebration of, of our country. And I know you've got some things on your mind about that. So first of all, how are you doing, my friend? And how's your summer going? And then your thoughts?

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:00:39]:

Well, happy Summertime to you, Dr. Brad Miller. And it's been a good summer for me and my family. Actually, I'm spending a little time with family in Virginia now, dealing with the heat. But my wife and I often say, you know, we are from the Midwest and why complain about the heat? Because in a few weeks we'll be complaining about the temperatures dropping. So indeed, happy 250th to America. And I think it's something worth reflecting upon and celebrating. But also think about the words of Frederick Douglass who commented on 7-5-1852, you know, after they were settled.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:01:28]:

This is in the 1800s, during the time in which slavery still existed.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:01:35]:

Right.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:01:36]:

And Frederick Douglass says, what is July 4th to the, to the slave. And so I say today, you know, there's much for us to celebrate by way of progress. We don't have chattel slavery anymore in America, but we still have a lot of discontent and a lot of things that we can celebrate, but also things that we can continue to work on to make this a more perfect union. Brad. Indeed. I think the founders of the country and those who wrote the Declaration of Independence and were responsible for our original Constitution lean into that. We're moving toward more perfect union. From 13 colonies to the world's greatest superpower, but also to the world, the country with the most millionaires.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:02:26]:

41% of all of the world's millionaires, Brad, are in the United States of America.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:02:35]:

And we have our share of billionaires too, don't we?

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:02:38]:

We do, yeah. And I think, you know, now you got folks that are becoming trillionaires. Who would have ever thought that that was conceivable, that one individual could actually have more assets than, you know, 30% of the countries in the world.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:02:55]:

Right. That says something about justice issues and I think, and economic equality around the world and in our own country. And I think there are some signs of encouragement as we have a 250th anniversary. And there are some signs of concern as we have various developments that have gone on in our country, and certain things have happened to diminish some aspects of our national approach virtue. But why don't you just go with me, Just kind of balance those out, kind of give me, like a sign of concern and balance it out with a sign of hope. Can you do that with me for a minute here?

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:03:48]:

Sure, I can. I can give you signs of hope and. And lots of signs of concern, or I would even say trouble. It troubles me that again, I mentioned where we have the world's greatest percentage of millionaires, but we also have a significant number of people in our country, some say as many as 1 in 6 child in the United States of America is living with food insecurity, meaning that children in the richest country in the world don't have access to adequate nutrition, some of which has been eliminated in school programs that previously had been funded through state funds and federal funds. And we have the largest prison population in the world, 1.8 million people in prison and in jails. And a few years ago, I was at a. At a seminar with probation officers. I was a person speaking from the faith community around the importance of the church continuing to have prison ministries.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:04:52]:

And I found out that apart from the 1.8 million people who are in prison and jail, Brad, we have approximately 4 million people who are under court supervision or probation. So that's over 5 million people that are in the justice, criminal justice system. Some of them have committed serious crimes or repeat offenders. And a significant number of them are people who've simply didn't have access to mental health services or drug recovery services, which constitutes a large percentage of people who are in jail and in prison. So we still have a lot of work to do in terms of progress, I think progress. The fact that we have, for the most part, as a country that evolved to have free public education across the country, a country that, because of both the government, but also because of churches, established many hospitals and universities and colleges. You're a graduate of one of those. So I thank God for the progress that was made over the course of these 250 years.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:06:09]:

But I also continue to pray and I am encouraged by the young people that I have a chance to encounter who say they believe that we literally can transform the world so that God's will will be done on earth as it is in heaven. So I'm encouraged when I see people who are willing to invest in environmental justice and creation care, people who still said, I'm Looking forward to voting in the next election to express my. Express my disdain or my affirmation for the current government. Most people are not satisfied. I know I am not with the government that seems to be less concerned about the average American and housing affordability or gas affordability and more concerned about protecting the interests of the ultra wealthy.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:07:09]:

All right, well, let me reflect with you a little bit. What I'm hearing you say here. You're having some concerns, kind of systematic concerns about food insecurity and how that has played out in socioeconomic terms and government terms. You're having some concerns around prison. We are prison population, people in the legal system and not everyone receiving the right mental health care and. Or legal representation. So some people kind of get caught up in the systematic processes that are not always just. And what I'm hearing you encouraged by is the people, both in the faith community and otherwise, who are trying to do something about those things.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:07:47]:

So I'm hearing kind of one is a systematic issues that are concerning you, but you're encouraged by the people who are speaking for justice and for encouragement. Is that kind of generally where I'm hearing you come out?

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:08:03]:

That is. That is, I'm encouraged by people who are willing to say that their faith demands that they look at things in an honest way and say, wait a minute, this is not right the way in which immigrants are being treated. This is not right the way in which we're told that, you know, the idea is to secure the borders and deport criminals and gang members only to find out that we've got American citizens and the elimination of people who had previously had been here for years, some of them a long time, eliminating their protective status out of this great desire to even redetermine what birthright citizenship is currently, according to our Constitution, if a person is born in the United States, they are therefore a citizen of that country or they're, you know, they're governed by the laws and the protections of the country. And now with the actions of Supreme Court and the current president in the United States, some people who are here illegally have now been put in a status where they are eligible to be removed from the country, including hundreds of thousands of Haitians as well as other persons. I'm concerned because I believe that part of what's driving our division in this country is not religion, but its race fear of brown and black people. One writer says, we fear a future that has already arrived. And that is the reality that, Brad, we live in a multicultural, multiracial society and we can't Turn back the clock now and just, you know. Yeah, a lot of people turn back to 1776.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:09:56]:

A lot of people are taking very broad strokes on those issues regarding immigration, so on. And they're using it to. As an excuse in my mind, in order just to leverage their own racist agendas in order to, you know, deport, for instance, deport many people. Many, many, many, many more people than were actual criminals and. And this sort of thing. I do want to ask you about something else that I just. I'm just curious about. Bishop Trimble, you live and work in Washington, D.C.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:10:26]:

in fact, your offices on the General Board of Church and Society United Methodist Church are basically on Capitol Hill and right near. You're right near the Supreme Court, aren't you? Right in that neighborhood where you're at. And anyhow, I'm just curious. We're recording this a week or so after July 4th and all the stuff going on in Washington, D.C. with the big supposed National State Fair events and the Reflecting Pool fiasco. What is the vibe going on in Washington, D.C. with the people you live and work with? How are people handling all that? What's going on there? Just give us some word from the ground there. What's going on there, my friend.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:11:09]:

Well, let's keep in mind I said with. Not this was somewhat tongue in cheek, but I said the scandal about the Reflecting Pool is the fact that it's reflecting incompetence. And the degradation of a respective compassionate democracy. So this millions of dollars and then only to find out that the people, people giving contracts had never done this kind of work before.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:11:47]:

And you know, and for absolutely no reason. There was no, nothing, no reason to mess with that reflecting. There was nothing going on. There was nothing wrong with it.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:11:57]:

Yeah. But July 4th, you know, you know, number one, it's been a big heat wave across much of the country. But on July 4, something happened that was very troubling and there was pictures in the paper about it. An organization called the Patriot Front.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:12:14]:

Yes.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:12:15]:

Which is basically. Not basically, it's a white nationalist hate group. White supremacist. Supremacist group that fosters. Fosters. You know, they argue for a white ethnostate where all white people will be together. And they argue that the only true reality rightful citizens in the nation are the. Are white men, European white men.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:12:45]:

Who. And yet. And yet they marched, you know, that marched in Washington D.C. and then down in the National Mall. And I think, you know, Roland Martin, one of the.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:12:57]:

They had mask on too, didn't they? They had mask On.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:12:59]:

They had mask on. Yeah, that's where I wanted to go, you know. Oh, man. Why didn't they have to wear a mask if we bear the truth and if we hold no hatred toward other people? And there was a juxtaposition of one picture I saw with the Ku Klux Klan in the 1930s March in Washington, D.C. on July 4th as well. And here we saw the Patriot Front. And Patriot Front is really a cousin group or a spinoff of this group that marched in Charlottesville. Oh, yeah, 10 years ago.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:13:34]:

Right.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:13:36]:

And with the tiki torches. And in that march in Charlottesville where they. Where they said, jews will not replace us, and, you know, they march with Confederate flags. And that's when Donald Trump, in his first. First chance to serve the country as president, said, you know, they were good people on both sides.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:13:58]:

Right, right.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:13:59]:

There was woman who was protesting, who was run over, run over by a car during their march. So the Patriot Front is just really, you know, it's like hatred won't go away. And to me, I think it's that people really want to find a sense of belonging, and maybe it's an opportunity for the church to say, you know, there's space for people. You don't have to join a group where you'd have to. You have to wear a mask and march which signs against the LGBTQ community or the black and brown community or immigrants, with what Roland Martin, in his book White Fear, says it's the fear of a majority minority. And so the nation is falling for this racial animus and culture wars based upon the reality that's already arrived. And I said that initially. They're already arrived.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:15:00]:

It's too late, Brad. There's already diversity in this country. And so we can talk about getting rid of diversity, equity, and inclusion, but diversity. I've said this before. It's in the Bible, and it's in the bloodstream of human family. For example, 59% of the state of Texas is black or brown.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:15:24]:

Right, Right.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:15:25]:

I mean, you know, people of Hispanic, Latino heritage or people of African heritage, Black Americans. And so 59% of the state of Texas, 33 million US citizens, identify as multiracial. Now, when you and I first went to seminary, that number was less than that. When you and I first went to college, that Less than that. But more and more people are in a marriage, you know. You know, you know, Asian and Anglo and black and white and Hispanic and Native and so forth. People fall in love with who they fall in love, Brad.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:16:03]:

Yeah.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:16:04]:

And many people we can't turn the clock, Brad?

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:16:07]:

Well, I would say society as a whole, and I'm going to make a broad stroke statement here, but I think society as a whole is much more accepting of interracial marriage, for instance, than when you and I were first, you know, and growing up. And it was a time when if there was a interracial couple, it would get everybody's attention no matter what, you know, no matter what, from every side. And now, more or less, it's just kind of accepted. You see it in media, you see it other places. But do you think that's true, for one thing? And then how is that reality of our world right now? You know, it seems to me that there is a pushback on that from these forces that really want white supremacy, for instance.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:16:54]:

Well, yeah, and, you know, we can't turn the clock back on the fact that, you know, now LGBTQ community, you know, no longer. Everybody's not. Nobody's going to be forced back into closets, Brad.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:17:09]:

Right.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:17:10]:

So, you know, our community is diverse, and we're richer for it. Actually, 33% of the country's population is black or brown. We have 50 million immigrants already in this country, and I'm talking about 50 million immigrants not of European descent.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:17:29]:

Right.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:17:29]:

So if we add those who are, say, like yourself, you know, almost 100% of the country is made up of immigrants or persons who can trace their heritage back to native, Native. The native nations here or those who were brought here as enslaved. And, you know, my heritage is probably mixed because.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:17:52]:

Because, and to be honest with you, most people are really somewhere along your family heritage. And really, the only people who are truly Americans in that regard are pure blooded Native Americans. And that's a very small percentage of our. Of our population. And yet there are those, I've heard these white nationalists come. Come out and say, you know, I'm a born and bred and raised American, and I'm. I'm white and I'm a Native American, and they're just simply not, you know.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:18:19]:

Well, yeah, it's. It's as if no one was here before. Our great great grandparents arrived prior to 8, but prior to 1880. Brad, you. You know this from your history, so scholar, too. The immigrants were primarily European. Right. And most were coming here the same reason that people are trying to come across the border for a better job, to support their families, for an opportunity to thrive and to experience that.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:18:48]:

After 1848, the gold rush, the West Coast Gold Rush, there was a flood of Chinese immigrants that came in. And so there have been several times during history in which the Congress and presidents have advocated for immigration restriction. There was a Chinese restriction law, immigration law to prevent more Chinese people from coming in. And so there have been different periods of the time in which we've said we really don't want immigrants to come into the country.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:19:26]:

But instead, with that, right now we have immigrants just to say that, you know, we have people enacting laws to close the borders and all this kind of thing, and certainly much more pressure on immigrants soon with, you know, people being deported and so on. But I don't see it really stopping the flow of immigrants. People are still wanting to come to America for opportunities, even though it's a huge challenge, right?

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:19:53]:

Absolutely. And all of the data, Brad.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:19:57]:

All of the data.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:19:58]:

Sometimes we don't want to face honesty. I'm reading a book, and maybe we can do a podcast on this or get the author on is. I'm reading a book about immigration, the benefit of Immigrants. And it's laying out the data that in fact, our country has been made wealthier from having immigrants.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:20:22]:

Absolutely.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:20:23]:

And lives have been saved because of immigrants.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:20:27]:

There's no question about that.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:20:29]:

In other words, the net benefit is that, you know, and, and this is not an argument. I'm not. I'm not one who argues that we should not have borders or quote, unquote, secure borders.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:20:42]:

Right.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:20:42]:

But I think we shouldn't have a way for people to access because we will need more workers. Unlike India or some countries where the population is so large. We have 340 plus million people in the United States on a land mass that could easily handle three times that. You just got to drive in west. We lived in Iowa for eight years and now in Indiana. And, you know, there's. It's not like we're overcrowded. We might be overcrowded in some of our cities.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:21:21]:

It's a big country.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:21:21]:

Our land has not been overworked, overcrowded.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:21:25]:

So immigrants, in fact, just a number of.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:21:29]:

Some industries would collapse without immigrants.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:21:33]:

Well, yeah, I know, just the agriculture industry alone. I'm aware of a little bit from studies and some reports. You know, all of a sudden, some folks who voted for a white supremacist agenda now do not have the workers they need to do what they need to do, you know, and they are now in trouble, these farmers and some other people in agriculture. And I think it's that way in other fields as well, who are now having some struggles in that regard. And I just think the numbers tell the tale. We have a big country. And, you know, you talked earlier about food insecurity. You know, there's enough capability agriculturally, you know, from living here in Indiana and in Iowa, we probably could produce enough food in it in Indiana and Iowa to feed the world alone, you know.

Reverend Dr. Brad Miller [00:22:22]:

But in our country, we have that to feed the world. And there's no reason why people in our country particularly should go hungry or have food costs so out of sight. It's ridiculous. And certainly we could feed the world as well. So there's lots of economic concerns. There's lots of fair, you know, judge or fair equitable issues here.