Carrying the Torch: Jesse Jackson’s Legacy in Today’s Fight for Justice and Inclusion

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:00:00]:

Hello, good people, and welcome to the To Be Encouraged podcast with Bishop Julius Trimble. This is the podcast where we look to offer an encouraging word to an often discouraged world. I'm your co-host, Reverend Dr. Brad Miller. Bishop Trimble, on our last podcast, we mentioned about the loss just recently of Reverend Jesse Jackson and your memories of him and the impact he had on the world in social justice and civil rights and preaching and teaching and all kinds of things. You've shared a lot of personal memories of him, and so much appreciated and so pertinent to our conversation. Let's talk for a few minutes now about the impact of Reverend Jesse Jackson and the influence that he would have right now in a world we have right now with racism rampant, with social injustice still here, with ICE raids on immigrant populations, with LGBTQ people being threatened, all kinds of things happening. Just give me a few of your thoughts about what Jesse Jackson in his prime would be saying about the situation at hand in our world right now.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:01:18]:

Well, you know, Jesse Jackson, Reverend Jesse Jackson, to me is kind of like the sports legend LeBron James, who's still playing at a very high level, even though he's been doing it for over 20 years now. Reverend Jesse Jackson continued at a very high level up until just maybe a few recent years where he was slowed down by Parkinson's disease. He continued for a very high level of being one of the foremost visible spokespersons for civil rights, for diversity, inclusion, and equity in the United States and probably across the globe. One of my other memories was he worked closely with my home pastor, Reverend Dr. John Porter in Chicago. And I was influenced by Dr. Porter, who was my mentor in ministry. He was a graduate of Garrett Seminary.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:02:14]:

So I went to Garrett Seminary and he was a supporter of Operation PUSH.. And any student or any theological students that came out of my home church, we were all expected to at least go to Operation PUSH on Saturdays if you lived anywhere close to Chicago. One of the things I remember, Brad, about Reverend Jackson was he believed that there was no such thing as authentic leadership or pastoral ministry that did not take seriously— and I think he He would probably say take literally the demands of Matthew 25. You know that section in Matthew 25, Brad, where in some Bibles it says the judgment of nations. Yes. And the way in which nations would be judged. For I was hungry, you gave me food. I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:03:09]:

I was a stranger and you took me in. I was naked and you clothed me, sick and you visited me. I was in prison and you came to me. And of course, the voice comes out, but when did we not do these things? And Jesus says, you know, when you've done it to the least of these, you've done it also unto me. He took very seriously that passage of ministry along with Luke 4, where Jesus says, I've come to preach good news to the poor. Reverend Jackson believed there was no good news from the gospel unless it was also good news for the poor and for the disconnected and for the disrespected.

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:03:56]:

A real passion for compassion, right?

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:03:59]:

Yeah. Reverend Jackson today was what I call, for me, Brad, was one of my first rap artists.

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:04:07]:

Oh, yeah. The way he talked and his cadence and everything. Wow.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:04:13]:

Absolutely. His phraseology and his way to use words.

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:04:16]:

Oh yeah.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:04:17]:

He might have been one of the first rap artists, popular rap artists.

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:04:23]:

Well, I wish I could remember some of the phrases, but the way he just had kind of a singing effect or musical type of cadence and the way he was able to rhyme words and so on, it was just amazing. And yeah, but so what do you think? What are some lessons we can learn from Jesse Jackson in terms of modern-day leaders, yourself and myself and other particularly younger leaders can learn from that to apply to the injustices and the social ills of our day?

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:04:56]:

Well, I think one of the things Reverend Jackson would not retreat from right over wrong. For him, it wasn't just the left versus the right. Republicans versus Democrats. It was right versus wrong. It was good versus evil. So I think he would say to Brad Miller or Julius Trimble, you know, don't apologize for embracing and celebrating diversity, for equity, for inclusion. Reverend Jackson was well known for, you know, everybody should have a seat at the table. Yes.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:05:32]:

Everybody should have a voice. And that's why he really His vision was often painted from the standpoint of what became his organizational strategy of the Rainbow Coalition. And the Rainbow Coalition meant that it needed to be students in Black colleges, it needed to be white liberals and progressives, it needed to be poor people in rural communities, it needed to be the labor movement, public education, It needed to be a lot of different voices, the LGBTQ community. It needed to be a lot of voices coming together for the common good, which meant everybody, not just one particular tribe or one particular race or one particular cultural expression.

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:06:21]:

Yeah, I remember being struck by even the names of his organizations, you know, the Rainbow Coalition, is basically people from all different walks of life, colors, and beliefs and systems and so on coming together, but also Operation PUSH, which is kind of in your face a little bit, trying to institute change because change needs to happen, but it's driven by this coalition of people, all different walks of life coming together.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:06:49]:

Well, what do you think about that? The vision was, Brad, the vision, I initially, didn't fully get it about the theological framework behind that. But listen, he was in the same tradition of the Reinhold Niebuhrs and the Howard Thurmans. Yes. Because PUSH, I didn't even know this initially, PUSH stands for People United to Save Humanity.

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:07:15]:

Yes. Wow. I had forgotten that. That's awesome. Yes.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:07:18]:

Yeah. And I thought it was more local, But the vision was that literally that the world could be made a better place, particularly if people who often were the discounted took leadership and spoke up on behalf of those who had been looked over and looked down upon. He was one of the first persons too, Brad, who was an advocate for families who had lost, particularly Black boys and men who were shot by police officers. Now, keep in mind, Brett, let's think about this. When we were in seminary, there were no smartphones. People weren't recording things as they were happening. We didn't have social media platforms. So Jesse Jackson would often go and meet with families later after Reverend Jackson You see others who have picked up that baton as well, but he would spend time with family and often bring visibility to cases that would not get visibility because the television cameras weren't going to come, but they came because Jesse Jackson was there.

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:08:34]:

Yeah. Oh, I remember that. And that, because that was just shining a light in those dark, sometimes those dark, ugly places and giving notice to people who had been overlooked, noticed, or just kind of considered non-people in many ways. And wow, what a witness there. Who do you see on the scene right now, Bishop, who is kind of embodying this spirit? Are there people that you see, you know, both in the clergy world and in the political world and the social justice world who are kind of embodying the spirit of Jesse Jackson or applying his principles right now?

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:09:11]:

Well, I see a lot of people embodying those principles and there are a lot of good gifted preachers. I don't want to start naming them because I leave many of them out, but there are men and women who are prophetic preachers. And now some of them have really been able to embrace what you can help others do, and that is using social media platforms and podcasts as well as, you know, Instagram and Facebook and AI now. Now AI, to magnify the message of progressive democracy and to stand up against the rise of tyranny and some would even argue fascism. We didn't vote for a king. People voted and I will say that the current president got the majority of the votes, at least according to how it came out in the end, but that doesn't account for all citizens. We need leadership and prophetic witness now that says, What is best for the common good? And what about the people that are being overlooked, who still are asking questions about affordability, who still can't afford to own a home, who still work two jobs and still can't pay for their medicine or their, their phone bills? These are the kinds of things that Reverend Jackson continued to advocate for. Amidst all of the pushback that's coming from a much more conservative and a less compassionate government today.

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:10:50]:

Yeah, I love the practicality of it. He was able to debate and go on the Face the Nation and all the other big news TV shows and hold his own against anybody, politicians or leaders of any kind, but also really be there in in the midst of a hurting family going through tragedy and other things as well. And that takes a kind of a special kind of person. And I believe I'm with you right there, Bishop, that there are people who are doing just that right now. I know we have people in our state of Indiana who are going to detention centers where there are people being held, you know, illegally as far as I'm concerned, and voicing their voicing their, making a point and demonstrating for the rights, the civil rights and human rights of people. And see, people are stepping up. So the vision of Jesse Jackson didn't die with him, did it?

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:11:54]:

No, it did not. And just as he carried on after the work of others, the Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King Juniors of the world, We must continue to carry on after Reverend Jesse Louis Jackson. He leaves a great legacy, a strong family. Many of his children are also strong advocates in the arena of social justice and human rights. And he left an organization, he left institutions and organizations stronger, including his Rainbow Coalition organization that will continue its work. He was not the active executive director, although his personality and his presence and vision still helped to maintain that strong organization. I haven't lived in Chicago for many years, and you may have been gone since we left seminary, but I understand that Rainbow Push still— they still get major crowds and they still— in fact, he will be lying in state at Rainbow Push for several days. And I think at one point he'll be traveling to Washington, D.C.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:13:04]:

to lie in state and then be buried, I believe, in South Carolina, his state of birth. Wow. Don't be surprised if thousands of people— I certainly—

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:13:18]:

Oh, I would think it'll be a major thing. And what I remember, and what I'll just share my memory that I'd really like for you to kind of conclude our conversation with any memories or anything, any part of the legacy you want to share. Just the clear, credible, dynamic energy that he brought to everything. You know, he would raise his voice, but it would not be yelling and screaming in the sense of— he was just a force of nature, was who he was all about. And you knew when you were around Reverend Jesse Jackson that a point was being made with energy of vitality and with complete earnest belief. And he stirred stirred my soul and he stirred the soul of many. So Bishop Trump, I'd like you to just kind of conclude our conversation with the legacy of Jesse Jackson and how we can live that out in our lives and ministry moving forward.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:14:07]:

I think the legacy of Jesse Jackson can be best honored if we make sure we are registered to vote and we all take it upon ourselves to encourage other people to register to vote. But not just vote, get engaged in your local community, in the political sphere. You know, there may be someone on this listening to the podcast say, maybe God is calling you to run for office. Yes. It might be school board, it might be county commissioner, it may be state representative or state senate. And you may not have a million dollars, you may not have a hedge fund, underwriting your campaign, but God may be calling you as a person who's concerned about the common good and about the people who are overlooked to run for office. Reverend Jackson wasn't just the preacher. He ran for president twice.

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:15:03]:

Yes.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:15:03]:

He was what was the shadow senator for Washington, D.C. He was able to do multiple things, as we mentioned on the previous podcast, you know, he went and negotiated the release of US citizens who were being held hostage outside of the country. Maybe I can't do everything he did, but I certainly can encourage others. And Brad, you and I have embraced the opportunity to encourage as many people as we can to rise to their highest potential. So I make sure that I'm registered to vote. And I also make sure that folks all across the country that I'm related to recognize the importance of participating in voting and voting for people who care about all people.

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:15:51]:

Yeah, yes, definitely.

Bishop Julius C. Trimble [00:15:52]:

We're not trying to kick people out.

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:15:56]:

There you go, be included. Well, I love what you're sharing 'cause that's what the theme of your podcast is, to be encouraged. And if, boy, if nothing else, Reverend Jesse Jackson was indeed a profound encourager of others as you are in our podcast here. So I'm gonna thank you for sharing this and thank you for being a part of sharing the legacy of Jesse Jackson. And I just believe that God's not done with the work of Jesse Jackson. He's being carried on with people like yourself and many others, many people who we don't know their names, but they're doing it, aren't they? They're doing it in Minneapolis and Indianapolis and Washington, D.C. and all points in between. So thanks for sharing, Bishop Trimble, your thoughts today and your legacy about Reverend Jesse Jackson, and we'll carry on.

Rev. Dr. Brad Miller [00:16:41]:

So we thank you for being a part of our podcast here today. Indeed, Bishop Julius Trimble is all about encouraging others. That's why we call our podcast together the To Be Encouraged podcast, offering an encouraging word to an often discouraged world. I am your co-host, Reverend Dr. Brad Miller. We'll see you next time here on the To Be Encouraged podcast.